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A Conversation with Bethany McLean, Nate Silver, and Frank Bruni
The Unlikely Alliance between Trump and Musk
Frank Bruni: Bethany, Nate, we gather to ponder what is arguably, at this moment, the most consequential and combustible partnership in President Trump’s life. No, not him and Melania. Not him and Mike Johnson. Him and his beloved (for now!) ambassador to Mars, Elon Musk. What, in a nutshell, does their relationship tell us about Trump, his presidency, and this moment in America?
The Quest for Power and Profit
Bethany McLean: Musk is just one of the C.E.O.s who are racing to cater to Trump. It tells us that right now, in today’s America, no one knows what anyone really believes or stands for, other than money. There are a lot of dangerous elements in this, both between C.E.O.s, between C.E.O.s and Trump, and between them and all of us. It’s nice to believe that unleashing growth benefits all of us, but can growth be unleashed? And if so, who does it benefit?
The Rise of the Oligarchs
Nate Silver: I saw a lot of criticism when Joe Biden invoked the term "oligarchy" in his farewell address — but the richest man in the world is now also one of the most politically powerful men in the world, if he wasn’t already. And the optics of the inauguration made clear that other very rich men will also be dealt into the hand — so long as they play by Trump’s rules. However, it’s not a completely one-sided deal. The "tech bro" side winning the fight with the MAGA side over skilled immigration is significant.
The Shape of Things to Come
Frank Bruni: So, Nate, what does Trump get in return — and will it come with headaches and grief he’s not anticipating? Will he regret his oligarchy and rue his bros?
A Conversation Unfolds
The Department of Government Efficiency
Nate Silver: Trump gains a lot of financial resources, for one thing. Musk’s donations to Trump-backing super PACs will encourage other billionaires to play along — especially since it seems to have already produced an extremely high return on investment in terms of Musk’s net worth. Silicon Valley also brought Trump a certain cultural relevance and a permission structure for new voters (and perhaps just as important, wealthy donors in other industries) to come into the Trump coalition.
The Oligarchs’ Dilemma
Bethany McLean: I worry most that what Musk has called the Department of Government Efficiency will be inherently corrupt, by which I mean that it will deliver favors to those with power and pain to those without it. That has the potential to be combustible for Musk and Trump — Trump’s tolerance for voters’ pain may be very different than Musk’s — but it also may mean that we all feel very betrayed.
The Kennel of Alphas
Frank Bruni: Bethany, Trump revels in being the most powerful man on the planet, demands constant attention, is never wrong, values people in proportion to their obsequiousness, and lords over a social media platform (Truth Social) made in his likeness. Musk revels in being the richest man alive, seems intent on being the most feared and talked-about as well, and lords over a social media platform (Twitter-cum-X) transformed in his likeness. How soon does this kennel of only alphas become a dogfight? And what might prompt it, and what does it look like?
The Rise of the Oligarchs (Part 2)
Nate Silver: Silicon Valley’s right wing turned on Trump when I was working on my book. I never got to speak with Musk, but I did talk with most other principals (such as Marc Andreessen and Sam Altman). There are a lot of factors behind it, but two big buckets. On the one hand, you can read it as straightforward, self-interested politics. The Biden administration went hard after Big Tech under Lina Khan, and Silicon Valley wants lower taxes and fewer regulations. It’s not like business interests aligning with the Republican Party is a shock over the broader arc of American history.
Conclusion
The Future of Politics and Business
Frank Bruni: Moving on, though, to some more paradoxes and points of looming tension: Musk attained his greatest fame and riches through Tesla, which makes electric vehicles. Trump expressly demonized electric vehicles in his Inaugural Address, elevated gas-powered cars, and shouted "Drill, baby, drill." How does all that shake out? How does Musk persevere with the MAGA faithful, who rather like their fossil fuels?
The Oligarchs’ Dilemma (Again)
Bethany McLean: That will matter only if it matters in practical, monetary terms. If Trump is hollering "Drill, baby, drill," and that doesn’t affect Musk’s business interests, I’m not sure he’ll care. If, on the other hand, Trump wants to slash the subsidies other car makers have to pay Tesla, then there will be an issue. That’s where Musk’s self-interest might slam into the reality of gutting rules and regulations, and then you’ll have a big break between the two. Is it also helpful to specify that Trump might have done himself no favors, other than the financial ones — which might be what matter to him most — with the launch of his coin? It’s caused a somewhat quiet schism in the industry. This will be an interesting first test.
The Future of A.I. and Energy
Nate Silver: I think the equation has changed because A.I. is a very energy-intensive industry.
The Oligarchs’ Dilemma (Again, Again)
Bethany McLean: That’s such a good point, Nate. When it was in Musk’s financial interest to be anti-fossil fuels in order to promote the sale of E.V.s, he was. But now that he is in the A.I. business and it is demanding so much energy from basically every source available, will he still be anti-fossil fuels?
The Oligarchs’ Dilemma (Again, Again)
Conclusion and FAQs
The Conversation Continues
What’s Next for the Oligarchs?
How Will the Oligarchs Shape the Future?
What’s the Fate of the Department of Government Efficiency?
What’s the Future of A.I. and Energy?
What’s the Takeaway from the Conversation?
The Oligarchs’ Dilemma (Yet Again)
The Conversation Continues
The Oligarchs’ Dilemma (Again, Again, Again)
